Rough Ride

[98GSX]

I've installed some sprint springs onto my car they drop the car about 2". i can't stand the ride at all. I'm setting the car up for drag racing and everyday driving. Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on what kind of suspension set up would a good choice. I don't have a ton of money to throw at the suspension right now, but could after a few months.

I've heard Eibach springs and KYB's are a good combo? Just wondering opinions. Thanks

Chris

[fusionsport]

I dunno- for a street car I would think kyb's and eibach or AGX and eibach would be fine- my "track" car uses Hyperco springs and protrac triple-adjustable ( http://www.vacmotorsports.com/protrac/triple.htm ) dampers but they are prolly a bit more than you are looking for-

[v413nc3]

If you want proven best on DSM's then you want Penske or Morris. No refuting those, they've both got time and time again proven records.

As far as drag racing though, those are WAY too expensive and simply put, over kill. Get some 5 way adjustables, Tokiko will even cut it. Get some nice ground control coilovers with eibach springs. Get the RIGHT SPRING RATE (I can't stress that enough). And don't drop the car much on the street.

[KeltonDSMer]

I know this is jacking the thread, but I don't think startong a new one would be appropriate either. For a 1G AWD, would GR-2s be okay for the eibach pro kit (1-1.4" drop) or should I just save for the AGX adustables? I could care less about the stiffness of the ride.....Less people to drive around for me :D

I know that shocks alone do more than springs alone, but I don't have a lot of $$$ to buy really expensive ones.

Like 98GSX said, I don't want the springs to drop the car; I just want the handling improvements.

[fusionsport]

if your talking about the Advance Design shocks made by Jay Morris, I think those are ok for what this guy is asking for but overpriced and under-capable. Having worked with just about all dampers at one time or the other I can tell you that those shocks are barely better then a Koni, and I mean barely, in fact a revalved to racing spec KONI is likely miles ahead of the advanced design damper, especially since a Koni can be made double or triple adjustable, and I dont think the AD shock can.

Penske are good Dampers, we use them on the Vettes, but their advantage isnt in design, its in readily available parts, which is something other High end dampers, like MOTON, JRZ, and ProTRAC, have issues with, although that is now pretty much a hing of the past. My ProTRAC actually cost more than Penskes, and have a technically better adjustment, especially in low-speed bump, which is extremely important.

As far as what this guy is trying to do, I would still look at the AGX, Tokicos are aweful in my experience, thier "adjustment" is crap, and they leak very very soon after putting them on. Back in the day they were all the rage on VW Golf and Rabbit auto-x cars, but it only took a couple of events to see how crappy they really were- I went back to Koni, most others went to Bilstein.

[hoffman]

I don't think telling someone to get $4k in shocks is the answer.

And proven by whom? No SCCA, national level car runs them. No one at RRE runs them. No DSMs running time trials or NASA use them.

Here is my recommendation for a "good" street car. Tokico w/ H&R springs (425fr, 350rr spring rates), RM sways, RRE upper bearing plates. Thats about $700-800 in parts.

For a fun autox car. Koni w/ Ground Controls (550fr, 450rr spring rates), RM sways, RRE bearing plates. $1000-1200 all together.

Weekend race car. JIC (talk to John about rates), RRE 1" rear sway. $2500

You don't have to like this list. But its mine and it works. Proven

[fusionsport]

Originally posted by hoffman
I don't think telling someone to get $4k in shocks is the answer.

And proven by whom? No SCCA, national level car runs them. No one at RRE runs them. No DSMs running time trials or NASA use them.



I have a shock dyno and know how to use it- so yeah its proven-

I cant help the FACT that 99% of the people in club racing have no fucking clue about what they are doing- but I think its very telling when I set up a STOCK 944t that lays the smack down in ITE against a NSX that weighs 500lbs less, has race brakes and an 1" wider tires all around, is mid-engined, AND has 50 more supercharged hp(for those not in the know an eaton supercharger develops much more torgue lower in the rpm nband than a turboand therefore SHOULD have a higher corner exit speed) and yet this STOCK(other than my suspension setup) 944turbine qualified a full second faster than the liteweight "race car"- and this with a driver who has had 6 drivers events and two Porche Club races in his LIFE, no auto-xing- nothing else

I told him(the 98GSX guy) the $5k(not $4k) shocks werent his answer, but I would go with the KYB AGXs since atm they are proving themselves to be the best bang for the buck shock out- since you seem to like RRE so much you can give them a call and ask them-

If you are doing serious track or even autocross work I would look around for a set of real sway bars- none of the ones currenty available are worth poo- on a really good day. actually I should rephrase- none of the bar mounting and layouts are worth poo, and I wouldnt use them- MOF I am not going to use them lol-

Adjustable camber plates are always a good idea, no matter whose they are, RRE makes decent ones, but so do others.

However this is all useless unless you have someone who is knowledgable about suspension setup to actually setup your car. Firestone is NOT the answer lol- no matter whose specs you give them. Hell most "race shops" barely understand how to level thier scales let alone set wedge or accurately align a car. And yeah I know I am elitist in this, but IMO there is no room for "its close enough" type thinking. As an example, a complete alignment, corner balance, bumpsteer, etc will cost about 800 bucks with us, and its worth every penny.If you want to go fast, that is.

Your advise was not bad for an "enthusiast" wanting to go a bit faster, but Im not sure how they correlate to the drag racer. I do know that ALL of my experience with tokicos has been bad- so I never recommend them


KELTON- the GR-2s are good street shocks, but they are NOT anywhere near a "sports" shock- at all- if that is what you want save for the AGX's
and those are my views

[v413nc3]

Uhm, actually Art, I know a few DSM guys who have proven times in road coarse and AutoX that are running them, and I'll let you know in messenger (since they don't like sharing their setups).


Like I said, for drag racing any of the low end 5 way adjusting shocks are peachy and GC's are a really good coilover if you get the spring rates right.

[Martin Q]

fusionsport - I have a rough idea where you are coming from as I worked for over a year at a service shop specialized in Porsche. We had several customers racing 944, 944T, 911s and 986. I appreciate your perspective.

My question is for a 90 DSM AWD. What would you use for the best ride quality (comfort) that is also track capable. I am currently ripping out old rubber busings and putting in urethane.

My idea is that a comfortable ride has to be tight which means. No loose items/trim/etc (big problem on old cars) that will bang/creak around, good bushings, solid chassis (full cage is great, but not possible on the street), and well tuned dampers. That last one is very important... but what to use on a DSM?

Thanks for the info thus far.

[fusionsport]

I have the ES full urethane kit, along with the full Prothane engine mount kit, and the ride is..crisp. I originally was going to use the AGX, but was able to get ahold of the ProTrac dampers.

In your case I would recommend the AGX, unless you really feel like ponying up for a set of Konis.

[hoffman]

off topic: How big of a PITA is the ES bushing install? I have been looking at those for years.

[fusionsport]

wasnt that big a deal, but then I umm customized mine a bit- on the front a-arm bushings you are supposed to save the shouldered metal bushing and press/burn/cuss the rubber center out- I bypassed this step and just drilled out the shouldered bushing along with the rubber bushing, then turned up a pair of aluminum bushings to fit. Much easier and I didnt have to deal with the rusty POS metal bushings. The rear bushings are realaively easy, no surprises or worries.
If you do not have a press or a really large vice, you can end up doing a lot of damage. The hacksaw technique is time consuming but does work and builds charachter =)

[hoffman]

Over all though.......worth while I take it?

[fusionsport]

indeed- not as nice as say, installing spherical bearings, but for the time and dollar spent, I think its definitely worthwhile

[Van]

AGX's suck, suck, and suck more. Go with the Koni yellows. They do cost a little more upfront, but they are WORTH EVERY DAMN PENNY OF IT! I've had both.

For springs, I'd say for a decent coil-over set up that is good quality yet cost conscious, go with Ground Control or the Diamond Star Specialties set-up. At DSS they will hook you up with a great all around set up I hear. At GC, you gotta order the right spring rates and heights as they like to give you soft and short springs with their basic DSM set-up. Too short and too soft.

[ImolaFem]

Originally posted by 98GSX
I've installed some sprint springs onto my car they drop the car about 2". i can't stand the ride at all. I'm setting the car up for drag racing and everyday driving. Just wondering if anyone has any opinions on what kind of suspension set up would a good choice. I don't have a ton of money to throw at the suspension right now, but could after a few months.

I've heard Eibach springs and KYB's are a good combo? Just wondering opinions. Thanks

Chris

It seems everyone went off on their tangent and didn't give you the obvious answer to your question. You said drag racing =)

Get some Eibach Pro-Kits. This will drop your car 1.5 inches. The spring rates are fairly soft, ~275-300 ish, but this does not matter as you're not going to be turning under hard conditions. Sell your Sprint Springs on Ebay to a ricer.

2nd. Shocks -- do this at the same time as the springs cuz lowering springs will kill your stock shocks, if they're not dead already. My stock shocks were dead at 35k miles. You need adjustable shocks and KYB AGXs are crap for 2Gs...decent for 1Gs. Konis are the "nicest off the shelf shock for 2Gs" but not necessary for your purposes. Get some Tokicos 5-ways like Jake said from shox.com and call it a day.

When drag racing, set your rear shocks on full stiff to minimalize weight transfer to the rear and your fronts on complete soft to get the upmost traction. Obviously play with tire pressure too.

For the street, I run 2 in the front and 4 in the back on the tokicos with front and rear strut tower bars and RM front and rear swaybars. This gives nice rotation without fearing the backend to spin out into a mountain when I go out to play in the twisties.

The RM swaybars are known for making a STOCK SUSPENSION DSM completely neutral. So if you keep the same spring rate ratio -- such as people do with 550 in the front, 450 in the rear on 2Gs, then your DSM will be neutral according to RM. So, with Eibach Pro-kits, making your Tokicos 2 in the front and 4 in the back with RM Swaybars might make your car understeer or oversteer more than mine. Its just a data point.