Too Much Timing??

[DSMtuned]

Is there a point where you can have too much timing advance?

Please assume that you have no knock.

Can you just keep leaning out the fuel mixture even if you are getting like 26* of timing with no knock?

Thanks for opinions!

[hoffman]

Word is any more than 23-24* is too much.

[sbiggi]

I had 40 deg advanced when I dyno'd 227 whp uncorrected..... that was with no knock (110 leaded).

20 degrees base timing isnt good..... thats how you blow shit up, and I did.

but I can only imagine how much better numbers I would have had with the proper timing.....

26 degrees isnt bad. Best way to tell is to read the plugs. Then you will know what the car likes best. Hard to explain, but the color change on the elecrod should be at the curve. If its not, then you have too much timing aor to little depending on where the color change occurs.

[DlandryTSI]

If you are running race gas (100 or more) 23 degrees is fine. 24 and up is just a waste.

--Dave

[DSMtuned]

Originally posted by DlandryTSI
If you are running race gas (100 or more) 23 degrees is fine. 24 and up is just a waste.

--Dave

A waste how?

At 6000rpms I'm getting 26* of timing with no knock. By 7000 I'm down to 21*.

Oh yeah, it's a 1g so no DSMlink. I've got the SAFCII and base timing to work with.

-Craig

[DlandryTSI]

If you are letting the stock 1g ecu control timing then you are seeing that much timing due to it running too rich. Lean it out a bit and I bet it goes faster.

Also make sure your base timing is 5-7 degrees

--Dave

[DSMtuned]

Originally posted by DlandryTSI
If you are letting the stock 1g ecu control timing then you are seeing that much timing due to it running too rich. Lean it out a bit and I bet it goes faster.

Also make sure your base timing is 5-7 degrees

--Dave

I thought that the 1g ECU decreased timing as it saw more airflow. That would mean that if I leaned the SAFC out some, then the ECU would see LESS airflow and increase timing, right?

Am I skewed in my thinking here? Go easy on me, K--:D

[DlandryTSI]

It does it based on temperature, barometric pressure, coolant temp, and airflow along with the IPW AFAIK.

--Dave

[jmakado]

i have read that running too high of timing puts you in a less "powerful" fuel map. like when you're cruising and you have 30* of timing. from what i have read and personal experience: 16*-19* is good on pump and you can go 20*-23* on race gas. also, don't forget that having "too much" timing is hard on the internal parts with pump gas as pump gas burns faster and you can be slightly pre-igniting the mixture. you can get away with more timing on race gas because it burns slower and has more resistance to detonation (pre-ignition).
the "less powerful map" idea is only relevant with a piggy back type system as changing with dsmlink or a standalone has no effect on the "stock" fuel maps. the damage can be done with any system as scooter proved at the last dyno competition. anyone feel free to correct any mistakes in my statements:)

[DSMtuned]

It's true that pump gas burns fast, which can lead to pre-ignition.

That's why I am running a 50%water/50%methanol injection mixture injected at roughly 20% of the amount of fuel that is going in the cylinders. The methanol burns much slower than pump gas and decreases denotation. So essentially, I am running a mixture of race gas at all times. The methanol also leads to a bit richer condition tha without it, allowing me to lean out the SAFC.

I know that with 26* of timing at 6000rpms I am getting up there towards "too high", but I was mostly looking for thoughts on whether I should lower my base timing or what. Also, timing drops off to 21* at 7000.

I am a bit rich now, being a bit conservative until I'm at the track, so I definitely have some room to lean things a bit.

[jmakado]

ya, i wouldn't lean it out any more. maybe try turning the boost up some and see if that lowers it.
i fall in the camp of not adjusting factory setting until you *really* have to. not saying that's right or not, but that's just how i feel about it.
you could also inject less methanol/water and see what that does.

[DSMtuned]

I wonder if my logger could be off. Is that what the "base timing" setting is for on the logger?

[DlandryTSI]

I don't know which logger your using nor have i kept up with any of the 1g loggers.

The way you can tell your base timing is to follow this vfaq:

http://www.plymouthlaser.com/timin.htm

--Dave

[50Trim Boy]

The base timing setting on the logger is so you can set it to what your *real* base timing is. Check your base timing with a timing light, then set the logger to that. What does the logger read for timing at idle?