Shock/Spring ideas?

[jmakado]

I have all the other parts of my suspension laid out with some on order. The last piece I am a little confused about is shock/spring selection. I have it narrowed down to three choices:
1. Koni-Ground Control. The only concern I have is with the lateral loading of the shock that I have read about with this setup. I also have read that the upper hat they make is crap and not a good solution. Anyone know of a better solution?
2. Tein Flex. I know that most on this board think of these as a ricer mod but they look good on paper. 550lb front and 350lb rear perfectly matched to the valving of the shocks. Tell me why you think they suck.
3. JIC "kit" that RRE sells. JIC FLT2 setup for DSM's by guys that know how. The only concern I have with these is the price. If I could get a good alternative for less dough I would like to spend the extra on some FP cams!
So, anyone have any input? I am really leaning towards the Koni/GC combo but want a good solution to the upper mount and side load problem and won't buy them if I can't find one.

[biglady112]

Not sure if you really like the adjustability or not. But, I have put on three sets of eibach pro kit/kyb non adjustables, and have been so satisfied. 1 1G, 1 2G and a WRX. all cars handled on rails and rode like a new car. Well the 1G made the most difference. My car had 3 collapsed struts when I installed them. And all of the springs were sagging.
Steve

rode nice and didn't have to mess with them

[jmakado]

I'm wanting something a with a little more track substance than the pro-kit offers. I am going to road race this next summer and while I'm not looking to set any records I do want to be competative.

[v413nc3]

the FLT2's will give you hands down the best performance for off the shelf right now. If you feel up to custom order you can go with Morriss or Penske for a butt load more money. I've actually returned my Morriss and got a refund. I broke something and they didn't want to fix it before I was older than God. I will probably be ordering Penske's.

[hoffman]

Actually DG shock dynoed a wide array of shocks this year and found Koni to be far superior, but can't handle the springs over 600lbs without revalveing.

If you were going to go for more track than street friendly, JIC would be a good deal. John Mueller at RRE can work with you to build a setup that would opitmize your car's handleing.

After that, Morris or Penske full race setup is the way to go.

AGX's don't have the travel to work well on a 2g.

We actually joke that the Eibach "pro-kit" should have been named "ametuer-kit".

As far as the tension on the shock rods from lateral load while cornering. RRE has been selling pillowball upper hats for 2Gs for a long time. It's not listed on their site, you just have to call and ask them.

That's my thoughts.

[v413nc3]

No, he found the valving on two MATCHED ones is good. But he mentioned that finding two that were matched was a pain.

[hoffman]

Well there was more to it than that.

This was off the autox list:

In a nutshell, what you get from going to a Koni to a higher end shock is better hysteresis and (at least on my setup) digressive valving. The Konis also seem to be a touch more temperature-sensitive, and heat up faster. But of all the off-the-shelf DSM shocks I've dynoed (JIC, Tokiko, GAB) these are by far the best.

DG

I'm sure he will do more research, but this is as good of a start as any.

[v413nc3]

Well there was more to it than that.

This was off the autox list:

In a nutshell, what you get from going to a Koni to a higher end shock is better hysteresis and (at least on my setup) digressive valving. The Konis also seem to be a touch more temperature-sensitive, and heat up faster. But of all the off-the-shelf DSM shocks I've dynoed (JIC, Tokiko, GAB) these are by far the best.

DG

I'm sure he will do more research, but this is as good of a start as any.



Art Art Art, you missed a lot of imporant stuff. Their valving may be more linear which is what he's saying, but their adjustability sucks ASS. And while valving may be extremely important in AutoX where adjusting wouldn't be so critical since all you're doing is parking lot racing, adjustability is of the utmost importance in road racing where every track varies. Like he said, on the two where he found them to be similar they only had equal settings on compression and rebound at 2 clicks out on one shock and 1/2 a click out on the other. Without a shock dyno you'd constantly have to have him adjust it for you. While having him preset it would be awesome for AutoX I don't think it's worth a damn at road racing, hence going with someone with more precise adjustability and sacrificing the small amount of linear valving is more than worth it for a road racer. Not to mention that little "temperature" issue comes into play HEAVILY in road racing. Keep in mind that DG is super sharp, but he's a AutoX guy and his views are tainted towards that end.

[hoffman]

This is all very true. DG is geared more towards AutoX. There was a lot more to his posts and research, but it's all public knowledge and a little searching anyone can read and make up their own minds.

But look at my first post. I do believe for a daily driven, yet nice handleing car, Koni is the best shock out there.

Over that, I would step up to a more percisely tuned JIC setup. Corner weight and balance the car so I could get the best set up possible.

Then step up to a Penske for full blown racing.

[v413nc3]

Yep, and I fully agree, but I think since he's looking for some road racing the JIC's would probably be his best bet. Although the Penske setup would be amazing not everyone wants to throw down 1600 a corner.

[jmakado]

Even the JIC's will be pushing the budget but in the range. How about drivability between the JIC's and the koni/GC combo? This is also important to me as I plan on actually driving the car a lot and most of my hard driving time is spent over loveland pass (my back door!). It is good to hear about the upper hat that RRE makes for koni/GC and I will call them about pricing on it.
Does anyone have a reason that the Tein's suck?
Right now I am torn between the Koni/GC and JIC's. Depending on the price of the upper hats the Koni/GC may end up being close to the price of the JIC's. So please keep it going for my benefit. Thanks!

[hoffman]

You only have to worry about the front hats. There is no movement on the rear struts, or so little that it is insignificant.

Koni sports, $500; Ground Controls, $350; RRE hats, $80.

JICs, $1950 set up for you car.

Easy math right?

If you want comfort I would not run springs higher than 400lbs on the car. The trade off is you lose the cornering. Yes, it will be twice as stiff as stock, but not so stiff you feel like your driving a car that inspires handling.

I run 500+ lbs on my car. I think they are too soft and the sway bars too thin. People that ride with me complain that it's too hard, or too bouncy, or their pussy hurts. Fuck them, it's my car.

Remember Koni does not control rebound. So if your spring rate is much higher than the weight of that corner, boing! Your going to bounce. But the great thing is I can slam speed bumps and pot holes with out even making the car buckle. It needs to a huge damn dip to get my car to scrap the front facia.

In all honesty. If comfort is even in your list of requirements for suspension. Get some RM sways and call it a day.

Watch a WRC or F1 race. Those cars are bouncing and jerking all over the road. Very stiff cars. You see the drivers winch after impacts because the car is so stiff there is no give from the suspension. It all goes into the drivers back.

But that's just me.

[v413nc3]

If you're going to go with the GC's and Konis then actually get corner weights on your car and order the springs the proper way. That way you can avoid those issues and pick up a little bit of response.