good coil over

[darkturbo]

Im not looking to lower my car but maybe .5 inches but I want a good coil over that can be raised and lowered for a 1g awd. Are there any kits out there??

[milehightalon]

Budget? Goals? Are you looking for height ajustable coil springs to work with your existing shocks or a complete coil-over setup?

Justin

[darkturbo]

Under 1k and complete or just coils that can be added to a good spring upgrade like koni or kyb.

[milehightalon]

DSS coilovers and Konis should fit that budget. You should be able to talk to Mike @ DSS about spring lengths and rates. Just tell him what you want out of the car and he should be able to recommend the right stuff.

Justin

[darkturbo]

ok thanks man. Ill do that. Basically Im looking for a stiffer ride but I want my car height the same(I want to be able to drive in winter without being a snow plow

[Cobrajetguy]

For that low of a Budget I would just get KYB AGX's and an Eibach Prokit, A nice coil over set up like hot bits will run you $1500-$2000.

[DlandryTSI]

If your interested in a KYB AGX setup with Eibach's I have a full set for sale. Takes 30 mins to swap them out because I'm including the stock hats as well.

http://www.rmdsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5270

--Dave

[nefkntym]

what about d2 coliovers?

[darkturbo]

what are the d2 coil overs???

[nefkntym]

http://www.thespeedfactor.com/coilover_dsm1.html

[intaginize]

Tein SS full coilovers with pillow ball mounts are the Shit, So I hear anyways, but not cheap $1200 or so Hotbits are sweet too but are even moren $1500 . D2s suck there made in Tiawan, stay away. For a good suspension setup under 1k I would recamend Koni's with GC coilovers or
AGX's with GC coilovers.

[nefkntym]

Do they suck because they are made in Taiwan, or is it because of performance. You know Stacy Casertano runs D2's, his 1G is daily driven, it runs low 10s in the quarter with full weight including AC. Oh well, I like D2's anyway. Remember he said he wanted a coilover setup that was UNDER a thousand dollars. None of the coilovers you mentioned have shit on JICs, they are $1800 but remember, he said under a grand. D2's are $899 and they work well.

[intaginize]

I have no personal experience so I cant say for sure, but basically people have been knocking them because there made in Taiwan and dont have quite as much adjustment as the Teins, I also heard they dont handle or ride as well as the Tein SS or Hotbits.

[darkturbo]

what are those GC coil overs? I have not heard of them.

[lbartik]

what are those GC coil overs? I have not heard of them.

That's Ground Control. They make threaded sleeves and spring perches for 2.5" coil springs that fit over regular dampers like a koni or KYB or OEM... They send 'em out with standard Eibach ERS springs. They use an application by application system and their standard 1g application uses some really high front spring rates like 385lb/in front and maybe 250lb/in rear, probably because they are set up to slam the front. They need lots of rate to keep the front off the bumpstops as much as possible. The spring frequency of the front is about 2Hz on an AWD with those rates and the rear is a quite a bit less than 2Hz due to the motion ratio. 2Hz is prety harsh and it's silly to bias the front spring rate so high on a car that already has immediate tendency to understeer. Those rates are way to high for most dampers as well. Your car will be very under-damped. Maybe a Koni could handle them but it might take custom guts. It would be wise to take advantage of the option to specify your own rates. I think you have a 2g anyhow? If you want to slam and don't care about performance, these might be for you. If you are looking for true cornering performance, you are going to have to do some homework beforehand.

[chrisgvr4]

Actually high front rates don't necesarily make understeer worse in real life.

If you want less understeer you need to "loosen" the rear or "stick" the front better. The larger front rate (or a big front bar) will increase the roll resistance of the front, keep the wheels flat on the ground and increase the front grip. Understeer is reduced!

As for shocks, Koni's will handle stated rates no problem. As for max rates they'll take that depends on a lot of factors.

Then again unless you actually drive the car on a closed course this discussion is pretty pointless.

[lbartik]

Actually high front rates don't necesarily make understeer worse in real life.

If you want less understeer you need to "loosen" the rear or "stick" the front better. The larger front rate (or a big front bar) will increase the roll resistance of the front, keep the wheels flat on the ground and increase the front grip. Understeer is reduced!



I have to disagree with, and qualify some of this discussion Chris. Actually what you brought up makes a lot of sense to me. These cars have an inferior strut type front suspension. (at least yours and mine do) Any body roll is going to put them into bad tire camber. Strut is not a good mechanism for body roll camber compensation.

I have two or three problems with the GC supplied fronts however.

They are hard to dampen. The majority of end users are going to end up with a horribly underdamped system.

The free length is only like 6" Which is going to put any car on the bump stops most of the time. This gives go-cart like reflexes but totally fudges all other aspects of the big picture:

bump steer goes to hell
what little camber curve these cars had is all gone and the tire actually undergoes camber increase (possitive) as the suspension deflects from roll or bump.
The roll centers will go to hell being that low too.

nothing will last long including the unibody and your sanity with the car on the bump stops all the time.

Getting my car back up off the bumpstops has changed my relationship with the car toward affection again. Honestly, cringing and shuddeering in fear every time you go over a minor road irregularity because it sounds like your strut it going to blow through the upper mount is, well, sort of passe.

In short, they have no deffensible qualities.

Fender gap slayers excluded, they are excelent for your lowlows cholos.

[chrisgvr4]

Hard to dampen is the users poor choice of shock. People are too cheap to buy Konis than that's not really GCs fault.

6" free length is definitely too short for under 400lbs/in spring rates. I'm running 7" free length and those are much better. Again i'd hope the user would choose free length and rate but we know most don't so GC should spec something a little longer.

Keeping your car off the bumpstops is highly recommended :) But if you want a dumped car and your not willing to spend money on Koni's you really aren't going to cough up for shortened shocks. A car that's off the bump stops still feels pretty nice even at 500lbs/in springs.

As to strut suspensions being inferior...there's quite a few cars that do just fine with them. I'd say this isn't going to keep anyone's DSM from handling well.

[WHTEVO]

I put the Tein SS dampers w/ pillowball upper mounts on the TSI not too long ago and they are a pretty damn good coilover. I would recommend them if your budget allows for it.

aaron