2G Suspension question

[blackdsm91]

Just wondering what you guys think is the best 98-99 gst spyder suspension set up.

I was thinking AGX's with Ground control coilovers....one of my frined's said H&R springs with AGX's.


Suggestions/Comments please....

[mitchel63]

Depends what you want to spend. What are you wanting to do with the car? A full coilover is going to be the best but also cost a couple thousand dollars. I run Illumina's and a Pro-kit and am perfectly happy with it for just street/drag/mountain use. DG and many others swear by Koni's. So really, what are you looking to spend?


But to actually answer your question.....the best off the shelf setup is probably JIC's.

[v413nc3]

I know people who swear by JIC's, such as RRE. And while they have tons of experience I was looking at the shock dyno graphs of them DG did and I don't think I'd touch one unless I could match them. Personally if you want best, Penske. $1500 a corner though.

And as a side note Morriss can lick my brown eye.

[mitchel63]

I thought about the super high end Penske-type stuff, but none of it is off the shelf built for our cars, is it? I would imagine you are getting into some custom fab type situations with that.

Really.....anything you get is going to be an improvement over the stock stuff.

[v413nc3]

Yeah Penske doesn't make anything but a company in the UK takes the Penske 8100 series and remakes the mounts for our cars. 3 way adjustable (45 adjustments) super powerful setup that are completely rebuildable, revalveable and adjustable. Throw on some hypercoil springs and a proper set of camber plates/spherical bearings and you have the makings of an excelent suspension setup. Then half a billion hours later of adjusting the setup and you'll be about as good as it will ever get on our cars. I'd really love to get a set of Ohlins or something but I don't think they'll ever do anything for us. Evo owners have it so damn easy.

[jmakado]

I'm running JIC's right now. I am not going to an open track day until July 7th at Willow Springs. I will be able to comment on them for track use after that. As far as street use is concerned, I can't imagine having more grip! With 235 Advans, RMDSM sways, and JIC's, the car is far faster at turning than I am. I have tried to push the limits of the suspension, but I get scared way before it comes close to letting go, and I have a fairly high sense of risk as Mitch can attest to. If I made some laps with a $6k penske setup and then some with my $1800 JIC's, I wonder if I would have better times?

I think that DG may get a little too involved with the whole shock dyno deal. Maybe it means they are better, but how much? Put it this way, I trust RRE as they have had very good luck on many cars with JIC's. I would think that you would see them using GC collars, Koni's, and their own Sperical upper mounts if it was better.

For comparison, If you could just look at a compressor map and sell the best turbo systems based off that, then FP wouldn't spend so much times doing real world testing. A small 16g has a much higher efficiency island than an Evo 16g, but we all know what goes faster right?

After all, as DG would say:
In theory, their is no difference between practice and theory, in practice their is.

[v413nc3]

Ahh, but we're talking apples to apples. He may like his little Koni setup, and truth be told Koni is a much better suspension company than JIC is (tell me one top tier race car running JICs). But when posed a question about JIC versus X my answer for X will have to be Penske. But you pay for it. Like I said RRE has done some amazing things with JIC's but looking at those shock graphs and I don't want to touch them. When playing in a little pond it is easy to say X is better than Y because of limited view. In the small turbo world Evo 3 is defiantely better than S16G even though graph to graph the Small may look better, but when playing in the big world the E3 doesn't really match up to a GT30R for power or efficiency does it? When you take things in a smaller scope some things to be better than others but if you don't want to build the rest of the car around deficiencies included with something than decide to buy with the bigger picture in mind. Given that long winded response, :), Penske's will work better if tuned correctly. Will you need them for a given setup, probably not. JIC's for most people are more than enough to handle what most people want to do in a 2G. Hell DSMLink will do 90% of what everyone needs to be doing, that's why everyone isn't running Haltec/Motec/AEM etc. Which is better? I personally would say the AEM over a DSMLink for what I *can* and *do* use it for. If you don't need features of something why buy it when something cheaper will work just as well.

[jmakado]

well said. Agreed.

I guess I am more of a DSMLink, E16g, JIC kinda guy. After all, all 3 of those do more than I need them to do on the street, which is where I put on 99% of my miles. I have made over 100 passes in the car probably and done numerous runs around the mountains at my house. But I still use my car to get around for the most part, in the summer that is :D

[v413nc3]

And so your setup is probably perfect. Which brings us all back to the origional question, what plans do you have for the car so we know what to suggest for suspension.

[blackdsm91]

And so your setup is probably perfect. Which brings us all back to the origional question, what plans do you have for the car so we know what to suggest for suspension.


Sorry I didn't answer in awhile....kindof got stuck trying to find a rear end for my other dsm.

As far as this dsm, I'd like to keep it mostly stock as far as power - even it out at about 10-12psi, but as far as the suspension, I'd like to lower it a bit...maybe 1.2-1.7" max and basically have a nice setup for the street. I'd like to take it up the mountains every once in awhile. But yea, basically nice, not too expensive, that's why I was asking about the agx's/eibach/h&r's/ground controls...

What do you guys think about GAB setup? Not even sure if they make 2g setup's.

[blackdsm91]

Also, what do you guys think about evo rims on a 2g? :confused:

[jmakado]

For what you are wanting to do, I think it would be tough to go wrong with the Eibach Pro-kit, Tokico combo. It's what Mitch has in his car and it's really nice. Good ride on the street and good handling. Not to mention it won't cost you a grand or more.

As far as Evo wheels, I have them on my car: http://www.rmdsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6240

[blackdsm91]

For what you are wanting to do, I think it would be tough to go wrong with the Eibach Pro-kit, Tokico combo. It's what Mitch has in his car and it's really nice. Good ride on the street and good handling. Not to mention it won't cost you a grand or more.

As far as Evo wheels, I have them on my car: http://www.rmdsm.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6240

Thanks for the advice. Rims/car looks good. ;)

[jmakado]

Thanks, no problem.

[blackdsm91]

Skunk2 95-99 Adjustable coil-over kit - what do you guys think?

[amcauley]

I had skunk2 coilovers with on my car with kyb agx and then tokico illuminas. The ride was hard and it turned very well, but if you hit a big bump the car would bounce like crazy. They also made wierd noises. Now I have Eibach pro kits with tokico Illuminas, a much better ride quality while still being stiff enough to corner well.

[Hal]

Skunk2 95-99 Adjustable coil-over kit - what do you guys think?

That's what I have, along with Tokico

[blackdsm91]

That's what I have, along with Tokico


Ride not too bad/stiff? I'm not trying to bounce over every little bump...

[blackdsm91]

Looks like I'm going to go with this setup:

Tokico Illumina 5-way adjustable shocks with Ground Control coilovers (600 F, 450 R). ;)

[TSi21]

Let me know how that works out for you. That is the same setup I'm looking to go with as soon as I have my other bills payed off.

Chris

[blackdsm91]

Let me know how that works out for you. That is the same setup I'm looking to go with as soon as I have my other bills payed off.

Chris

Will probably be on next week sometime....

[jmakado]

The tokico's may have some trouble controlling that heavy front spring. Why are you going with such a high rate up front? I would think that 500F and 450R would work better.

If you really want to go that high in the front I would say to wait and save some more money for Koni's. That's high for them as well but they will do a better job with a high spring rate like that than a Tokico. You may have some bouncing and end up wearing out shocks pretty quick if you pair Tokico's with the GC rates you posted.

Tokico's are really better matched to pro-kit like rates. I want to say they are around the 250F/175R range. I could be a little off but that's pretty close. That's more than half as low as what your GC's are going to be.

[blackdsm91]

I'll think about that one...

I have those same GC's with AGX's on my '91 awd and it seems fine on the street when the agx's are on like 2 setting up front and 3 in the back. When I set them to 4 front - 8 rear, they get really rought and bouncy, but it seems good for the strip.

[blackdsm91]

The tokico's may have some trouble controlling that heavy front spring. Why are you going with such a high rate up front? I would think that 500F and 450R would work better.

If you really want to go that high in the front I would say to wait and save some more money for Koni's. That's high for them as well but they will do a better job with a high spring rate like that than a Tokico. You may have some bouncing and end up wearing out shocks pretty quick if you pair Tokico's with the GC rates you posted.

Tokico's are really better matched to pro-kit like rates. I want to say they are around the 250F/175R range. I could be a little off but that's pretty close. That's more than half as low as what your GC's are going to be.

Well, what about AGX's then....would they handle the springs better?

[blackdsm91]

Ok, from talking to some people at the meet about their suspensions, I'm not so sure about this setup that I was going to go with. So now I'll probably spend the whole nite trying to find something else.