PDA

View Full Version : 2g Transmission and Transfer Case Differences



rodent
02-10-2008, 11:31 PM
I read that there's a difference between 95-96 and 97-99 transfer cases. The splines are the same (23 spline) but the gearing is different. This would also mean that the transmissions gearings are different too correct?

I turned the input shafts on each t-case and one does spin the output shaft faster but its barely noticeable but and have to spin the input 7 times too see the difference. This would definitely cause binding.

So my question is how do you know what transfer case is for what transmission? Is there a number on the t-case or tranny that would show the year? I'm looking at a 95 t-case and a 99 t-case and don't see a difference looking at the outside numbers.

ba109296
02-10-2008, 11:40 PM
There is a test to see which one you have. I think its on a tranny site somewhere.....

biglady112
02-10-2008, 11:48 PM
Copied and pasted from the dsmlink forums. I had put this information elsewhere but can't seem to find it. But I know I put it on the link forums.

Sorry, its not the splines, its the final drive. The 95-96 transfer case uses 23 and 25 tooth count gears. 97-99 use 27 and 29 tooth count. Rule of thumb is to use the tranny with matching transfer case. All are compatible within the years though.

Steven


It is just tranny and transfer case related. All rear ends are the same. 95-96 have to have matching transfer cases and the same for 97-99. The is a gear in the tranny that has to match the ratio in the transfer case.

That's where the 23/25 and 27/29 tooth count comes in.

Call Mr. Sheperd. He is the one who enlightened me on this.

Steven

A la Dave Mertz

Based on the 1.090 ratio quoted in the '95 service manual, it seems it would be 24/22 vs. the 1.074 (29/27) ratio of the '97-'99. (Actually, with rounding, 24/22 is 1.091 and 25/23 is 1.087, so maybe 25/23 is right. Diff to transfer calculatations below use 1.090.)

'95-'96 diff drive gear has 58 teeth (58/15 = 3.866) to match the '95-'96 transfer case ratio. '97-'99 has 57 teeth (57/15 = 3.800).

Front diff to transfer case ratio for '95-'96 is 3.547 and for '97-'99 is 3.538. A '95-'96 front diff drive with a '97-'99 transfer case would give 3.600 and a '97-'99 front with '95-'96 transfer would be 3.486, a significant bias to the front or rear.

Unfortunately, the spline-count change took place during 1G production so it is not an indicator of transfer-case ratio; 22 spline for '90 and 23 spline for '91-'99.

Dave

biglady112
02-10-2008, 11:52 PM
I can't remember, but there is also a four letter "code" at the end of each tranny number on the bellhousing that will help narrow down the particular one.

I am not exactly sure at the moment, it has been a little over two years since I needed to use the information, but I think the 97-99 trannies end in "x" utz or something like that. One of the models does have either utz, uzt or some variation of those three. I want to say there is an N before those three letters.

But the two gears in the transfer case will give it away. One gear set will have more one less.

Steven

rodent
02-11-2008, 12:36 AM
Thanks!

I have another 2g trans that I need to check where it came from. I'll start looking for a code on it.

rodent
02-11-2008, 01:06 AM
Found some tranny codes doing a Google search:

Model Comments

W5M33-2-NQBK 91-2 Galant VR4 up to 4/92
W5M33-2-NQBM 92 Galant VR4 mfg 5/92
W5M33-2-NPZS 89-90 Eclipse AWD 5spd turbo mfg 3/89-6/90
W5M33-2-NPXV 91-94 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 6/90-2/94
W5M33-2-NNZT 95 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 3/94
W5M33-2-NPZT 95-96 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 3/94-6/96
W5M33-2-MUZT 97-99 Eclipse AWD 5spd turbo mfg 7/96-end

biglady112
02-11-2008, 01:17 AM
See I had it right. Almost. Like I said, it has been so long I just could not remember. Very good find. That is exactly what I was referring to.

Good luck.

Steven

dsm_gsx97
02-11-2008, 10:16 AM
Thanks!

I have another 2g trans that I need to check where it came from. I'll start looking for a code on it.

The one I sold you was out of Shawn Moss's '97 TSI AWD. He took mine to send in to Jack when he busted his, and gave me his when he replaced it a few weeks later. Incase that was the one you were investigating. :)

rodent
02-11-2008, 10:31 AM
The one I sold you was out of Shawn Moss's '97 TSI AWD. He took mine to send in to Jack when he busted his, and gave me his when he replaced it a few weeks later. Incase that was the one you were investigating. :)

Thanks. It had the 97-99 code on it so thats correct.

I noticed that transmission had a crack on the case close to one of those rubber plug holes around the flywheel. Its actually torn and pushed up on one side of the crack. Looks like the flywheel or clutch damaged it since there's marks inside that are in the shape of the flywheel. Do you think that would cause any strength issues since I was planning on building this trans for high hp? Kind of bummed after seeing that. :(

v413nc3
02-11-2008, 10:56 AM
You should be able to have it repaired without ill-effect to its ability to hold higher torque loads.

dsm_gsx97
02-11-2008, 12:18 PM
Looks like the flywheel or clutch damaged it since there's marks inside that are in the shape of the flywheel. Do you think that would cause any strength issues since I was planning on building this trans for high hp? Kind of bummed after seeing that. :(

I'm sorry. I wasn't aware of that being there, but that thing sat in that tote under a table for a long time without me looking at it so I'm not surprised. Shawn just dropped it off and I threw it in a corner for later use for my own rebuild.

I just called Kenny to see if he remembers that and how it got there and he said it was probably from when Shawn's flywheel came off one time at the track which I don't remember happening. I'll see what Shawn says about it, but makes sense if that's what it looks like happened. Should still be fine like Jake said, but I do apologize about that being there since I didn't notice it. Usually I'm good about noticing things like that. Is it very big? I knew the center diff was broke, but wasn't aware the bell housing was damaged in any way.

v413nc3
02-11-2008, 12:24 PM
I know Jack has had some really good luck welding those up and fixing them, and as far as I am aware he hasn't had any failures from them being fixed.

rodent
02-11-2008, 01:04 PM
I'm sorry. I wasn't aware of that being there, but that thing sat in that tote under a table for a long time without me looking at it so I'm not surprised. Shawn just dropped it off and I threw it in a corner for later use for my own rebuild.

I just called Kenny to see if he remembers that and how it got there and he said it was probably from when Shawn's flywheel came off one time at the track which I don't remember happening. I'll see what Shawn says about it, but makes sense if that's what it looks like happened. Should still be fine like Jake said, but I do apologize about that being there since I didn't notice it. Usually I'm good about noticing things like that. Is it very big? I knew the center diff was broke, but wasn't aware the bell housing was damaged in any way.

Its about a 2" crack so its not huge. I'll have to take a picture but as long as it can be fixed, I'm okay with it. Thanks!

Still would like to know how you would tell the t-cases apart without having to spin the input to see what gearing it has.

biglady112
02-11-2008, 03:52 PM
Open them up. I gave you the year specific tooth count above. There are two gears inside each one.

It is the only way to know.

Steven

rodent
02-11-2008, 05:04 PM
Open them up. I gave you the year specific tooth count above. There are two gears inside each one.

It is the only way to know.

Steven

I was hoping for an easier way but I guess thats the only way to find out. I might post my findings on number of input shaft turns = x output shaft turns since I have both years in front of me. Thanks again for your input on this!

Jack(IAT)
02-11-2008, 05:32 PM
You don't have to open it up to know what gears it has. Mark the coupler and mark the output shaft on the t-case. Turn the coupler 12 full rotations. Does the output shaft line back up with its mark? If not, go another 2 full rotations (for a total of 14) and see if it does. Let me know if it took 12 or 14 turns.

Jack

rodent
02-11-2008, 05:44 PM
You don't have to open it up to know what gears it has. Mark the coupler and mark the output shaft on the t-case. Turn the coupler 12 full rotations. Does the output shaft line back up with its mark? If not, go another 2 full rotations (for a total of 14) and see if it does. Let me know if it took 12 or 14 turns.

Jack

Thanks Jack. Thats what I was going to post to show the difference between the two. I can't remember which one took less turns but I will post it here.

I have another 95 t-case and I think it might be bad since it felt like the car's drivetrain was binding. I was going to check the t-case first. When you open those up, what do you check for to see if its good or not? I might just take it up there to you.

rodent
02-12-2008, 12:02 AM
You don't have to open it up to know what gears it has. Mark the coupler and mark the output shaft on the t-case. Turn the coupler 12 full rotations. Does the output shaft line back up with its mark? If not, go another 2 full rotations (for a total of 14) and see if it does. Let me know if it took 12 or 14 turns.

Jack

95-96 t-case = 12 turns
97-99 t-case = 14 turns

Jack(IAT)
02-12-2008, 02:08 PM
When you open those up, what do you check for to see if its good or not? I might just take it up there to you.

You pretty much want to look over everything. The coupler for spline wear (saw-tooth), the gears and bearings.

Jack

rodent
02-24-2008, 11:54 PM
Sorry to bring this back but here's a transmission thats in my new 95 GSX-

W5M332UMGL

What car did this come out of????

I searched everywhere and found nothing. My old 95 and my 99 had the numbers below:

Model Comments

W5M33-2-NQBK 91-2 Galant VR4 up to 4/92
W5M33-2-NQBM 92 Galant VR4 mfg 5/92
W5M33-2-NPZS 89-90 Eclipse AWD 5spd turbo mfg 3/89-6/90
W5M33-2-NPXV 91-94 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 6/90-2/94
W5M33-2-NNZT 95 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 3/94
W5M33-2-NPZT 95-96 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 3/94-6/96
W5M33-2-MUZT 97-99 Eclipse AWD 5spd turbo mfg 7/96-end

ba109296
02-25-2008, 12:01 AM
Maybe an expo or summit?

Jack(IAT)
02-26-2008, 01:32 PM
Are you aksing because you want to be sure you have the correct t-case?

Jack


Sorry to bring this back but here's a transmission thats in my new 95 GSX-

W5M332UMGL

What car did this come out of????

I searched everywhere and found nothing. My old 95 and my 99 had the numbers below:

Model Comments

W5M33-2-NQBK 91-2 Galant VR4 up to 4/92
W5M33-2-NQBM 92 Galant VR4 mfg 5/92
W5M33-2-NPZS 89-90 Eclipse AWD 5spd turbo mfg 3/89-6/90
W5M33-2-NPXV 91-94 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 6/90-2/94
W5M33-2-NNZT 95 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 3/94
W5M33-2-NPZT 95-96 Eclipse AWD 5spd mfg 3/94-6/96
W5M33-2-MUZT 97-99 Eclipse AWD 5spd turbo mfg 7/96-end

rodent
02-26-2008, 02:11 PM
Are you aksing because you want to be sure you have the correct t-case?

Jack
Exactly. I want to make sure my t-case is the right unit. It feels like its binding on tight corners and it might be the viscous but I just wanted to make sure the t-case and transmission were the correct combo.

Jack(IAT)
03-04-2008, 05:14 PM
Okay, sorry for the slow response, but this should help:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3297172152897837068&q=jackstransmissions.com&total=1&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

We are going to be adding a bunch of videos to my site to help with stuff like this, so I hope this helps you out.

Jack

Hal
03-04-2008, 05:32 PM
Excellent video.

Hal

rodent
03-04-2008, 05:48 PM
Yep, good video!

Could there be another gear ratio inside my tranny if its from Japan or from a Summit? Its binding when turning slowly but it could be a bad viscous. It currently has a 95 t-case. I'm going to try and rotate the input shaft with it still attached to the engine and see if I get 5 or not.

Jack(IAT)
03-04-2008, 06:09 PM
Yep, good video!

Could there be another gear ratio inside my tranny if its from Japan or from a Summit? Its binding when turning slowly but it could be a bad viscous. It currently has a 95 t-case. I'm going to try and rotate the input shaft with it still attached to the engine and see if I get 5 or not.

It could be. I haven't had the time to go through all of the JDM units I have here to find a way to check those yet. There is also the possibility that the gear ratio is correct, but the center diff is damaged. Thrust wear found here is very common and can lock up the diff:

http://www.jackstransmissions.com/diff-failures.php?osCsid=21afdaf19a5f7c674e166a472ba684 f9

Jack

rodent
05-17-2008, 01:32 PM
Sorry to keep bringing this up but I finally got some time to take a look at this again. I'm starting to wonder if the gearing in the transmission is correct. Today I jacked the car up on the drivers side and left the passenger side on the ground. I marked the front and rear tires. Since the car has no rear locker, I figure the tires should spin pretty close to the same amount of turns. When I spin the front 1 revolution, the rear tire will spin 1.12 revolutions. When I spin the front 6 times, the rear will be about 6.5 revolutions. Is this normal???? The rear axle ratio is correct (BFB 3.545). T-case ratio is a 95.

I found some final drive ratios:
N code (95-96 trans)= 3.545
U code (from my trans)= 3.909

Difference is about what I'm getting with marking the tires. Would a bad center diff still cause this? I guess I can rip it out and see what it looks like. Or maybe I'll just rip this tranny out and put in a spare 95 trans I have. Before I do that, I'll take the t-case off and try Jack's method on the trans and see if it might have late model gearing.

I think the tranny shop that put this transmission in screwed up and got the wrong gearing.

rodent
08-11-2008, 01:46 PM
Little update on this transmission.

My 4th gear on my 99 GSX was bad and I need to sell the car so I figured I'd see if I could put this in my 99.

I decided to test if this transmission was a 97-99 gear set so I did this test while it was in the car.
http://www.youtube.com/v/GK6d-BFMW84&rel=0
With the starter turning the flywheel, and the t-case / CV shafts removed, you can count the number of times the front CV input shafts move. The t-case shaft moved exactly 5 times. Score! I'll just install this in my 99 GSX with the 99 tcase and get the car sold. Took out the trans out of my 95 GSX and did the same test with the transmission on the ground. Same results which shows it to be a 57 tooth.

Took the 99 trans out and installed this one over a weekend. Test drove it and it was fine until I got on the highway. The shaking was so bad I thought something came loose or a wheel was falling off even at 10mph. Stopped on the side of the highway then proceeded to drive 30mph off to the next exit. No shaking or anything so the VC must of been catching on the highway but not on slower roads. Thats when I figured it must be binding again and the ratio I thought it had was not correct.

Took the transmission BACK out of the car AGAIN. Took it all apart and sure enough, the ring gear for the front diff was way off. 63 teeth instead of 57. For some reason, the test above happens to show the same results as the 97-99 gear set. Swapped the ring gear and the pinion gear with the transmission that had the bad 4th and put it back in the car. Keeping my fingers crossed for the test drive tonight...

rodent
08-11-2008, 01:53 PM
BTW-

Here's the history on my 99 GSX:
Bought the car with bad 2nd syncro and bad clutch
Put my totaled 95 GSX trans and new clutch in the 99 GSX
Had some gear whine but was acceptable
Lost the engine from timing belt on the 2nd day of driving it
Decided to install a trans that just needed a center diff with the new engine
That trans had a bad 4th blocker or syncro since it kept popping out
Installed the mystery trans above
Gear ratio still binding
Installing the mystery trans with the correct front ratio