Oh sweet 420A of mine

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

Just this last winter i bought myself a little project car. A 1995 Eagle Talon ESi (5spd,101K). It's body isn't in too bad condition, and the interior is decent as well. I only paid 500 bucks for this car, because it has a bad rod.
Of course i want to turbo this bad boy. And use it as a daily driver.
I was just wondering what suggestions people had for me. Such as replacing some of the internals out for some of a 4G63T. Or simply taking the engine to my friends shop, and having him rebuild it. OR putting in a used 420A. I have no idea. :confused:
Remember: Bad Rod, thats what i'm trying to resolve.

Can you help me out?? I'd really appreciate it .
-Edwad

[Mirage]

Welcome to the forums.

Before anything is said, please take a little bit of time to read up on the forum rules.

Rules (http://www.rmdsm.org/forums/announcement.php?f=4)


The 4G63 does not share any internals with the 420a engine. You will not be able to use any upgrade parts from your typical DSM turbo engine.

Your best bet depending on price would end up being to simply replace the engine with another good used one.

The 420a does take to boosting pretty well, but is still no where near the potential of the 4g engine.

If you still want to move ahead with turboing the 420, then I would suggest looking into some forged rods, pistons and fortifying the block and head for high HP uses.

Marcus

[420ASlowness]

It all depends on what you want out of the 420A motor. Since your just building a daily driver, rebuild that motor(or buy a used one whichever fits your budget) and upgrade the internals a little. The stock motor can handle about 5-7 pounds safely on the stock internals, but if your looking for more boost, do what Mirage said. Hope this helps out and welcome!

[fhudsonjr]

Welcome Edwad or is that suppose to be Edward?
Good to see another ESI here. Mines a 93 Talon that I'm slowly gathering parts to turbo it.
Great people here and great info and help.

[v413nc3]

The advantage of yours Fred is that it's a 4G motor. Much easier to convert. The 420A is a large conversion project that ends up costing more than just buying a GSX/TSi AWD.

[dbl_clutch]

If youre looking for a way to blow some money on a turbo kit heres a good site. The kits start around 2500-3000 but I have read good things about them.

http://www.turbosystem.com/auto/eclipse/eclipse.htm

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

Oh yeah, it's Edwad, not Edward.

Anyway, one of my old friends in Arizona has a 2G RS that he had turbo-ed. It lasted him quite a while, and It was pretty awesome too. He ended up putting forged internals in it. And he claims it holds up very well.

I just want to turbo this car just in case the local Honda kid pulls up next to me at a stop light.:rolleyes: and until i can afford an EVO X :D

Thanks for the help! any more suggestion, please post them! I'd like to hear them.

[420ASlowness]

Hahn Racecraft makes a turbo kit specifically for the 420A motor(Here (http://www.turbosystem.com/auto/eclipse/eclipse.htm) is the link) in 5 different stages but it is about 4500 bucks and some of the parts in the kit will need to be replaced according to your future needs. Unless it's changed they have one of the fastest 420A based eclipses with their stage 5 kit and nitrous(its either high 10s or low 11s). Your best bet is to make a list of all of the things you need for the conversion, and shop around to get the best price on the individual parts. This way it might be able save some cash. You will have WAY more options on components you can choose from, and have a build that suits your needs for future upgrades(if your planning on any).

Hope this helps!

[BoostedGS]

I've done it....



It was quite a bit of work and a lot more difficult to control the fuel management, but it was a fun car.

That being said, you will have cheaper upgrades and better performance overall if you just waited to buy your Evo or get a GS-T or GSX.

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

Damn boostedGS! that looks damn good! Thanks for the pic. I really want this car for more of a daily driver than a track car. People seem to be pretty happy boosting their 420As. But like you said, most people will tell you that you can get a faster set up, for nearly half the price. I say..why not?

How long did it take for install? and the big question: how does it sound?! :cool:

[BoostedGS]

If you have all the necessary tools and a good location for this install, it can be done in a day. That was not my situation. A couple of friends and I did the install in a detached apartment garage in the middle of winter with minimal tools, which required about a dozen runs to Home Depot in the process. :)

The car sounded great and pulled really hard.....from a roll. But the torque steer was terrible and from a stop I could never get traction.

[v413nc3]

Damn boostedGS! that looks damn good! Thanks for the pic. I really want this car for more of a daily driver than a track car. People seem to be pretty happy boosting their 420As. But like you said, most people will tell you that you can get a faster set up, for nearly half the price. I say..why not?

How long did it take for install? and the big question: how does it sound?! :cool:


You mean how did it sound. He sold the car. Once you modify a car it's reliability is drawn into question. When you boost a non-boosted car you can and probably will have all sorts of issues you would not have had before. Patrick decided to get a boosted vehicle from the factory so he sold the GS. In the end the money you sink into it will not be worth it. You have a one wheel drive wonder. The whole point of having a T/E/L is you get a heavy platform with AWD. A neon with a 420A would be a much better choice for boosting because they are considerably lighter. If you just want it for a daily I suggest you keep it unboosted. It will be way more dependable for you. Then you can save the money you were going to spend and either buy an Evo or another AWD car.

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

so how could i give this car power, without making unreliable? Intake, headers, catback exhaust? give me some ideas

[420ASlowness]

Those mods will add a little bit of power. This is what I have as far as the engine is concerned:

Intake, headers,2.5" cat back exhaust, MSD Ignition,and thicker plug wires.

The car definitely pulls harder than when it was stock, but all of those mods put together don't really add that much power on a naturally aspirated engine.

You could also add some under-drive pulleys. Simple bolt ons will add small amounts of power without making too much of a dent in it's overall reliability. To get tons of power out of a N/A engine, however, it would take lot of money(probably more $ than it would take to turbo it).

[fusionsport]

I have a boosted RS here at the shop thats done pretty well. You are welcome to stop by and check it out. This particular car is on its third motor, the first lost due to bad tuning and information, the second due to bad machining. Now that we have it, the car is pretty much completely ready to go, should be dynoing it tomorrow, Customer will likely pick it up within a week.

[matthewdesigns]

There's a guy on DSMTuners that has made 215hp on a NA 420A. It's a recent thread...their site is down right now or I'd find the link for you. I don't remember anything about the car's extensive modifications, other than it had a long tube header. So based on his experience, I'd say you don't have to turbo it to get more power out of it...but it might be less expensive to just turbo one, depending on what he's done to it.

[matthewdesigns]

Here's that link, and it was 203hp, not 215.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-bolt-tech/283000-203-8whp-169tq-na-barrier-has-been-broken.html

[BoostedGS]

That seems like a hell of a lot of work for 203hp. In addition to those bolt-ons, he also 12.1 compression JE pistons, Crower valves, etc. For the same price of all those internals, you could buy a turbo kit from HRC and get more hp out of the car running 8psi on the stock internals.

Here's my dyno sheet for my GS with a built engine at 12psi...

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

thanks for your reply guys. I'm probably going to take the engine out sometime soon. I'm probably going to replace the rod and piece together a turbo kit. I'd really like to boost this car. It would be a dream come true :cool:

If anybody has a turbo'ed 420A, I'd really like to check it out.

thanks again

[fusionsport]

Swing by the shop then, we have one here all done up!

[BoostedGS]

thanks for your reply guys. I'm probably going to take the engine out sometime soon. I'm probably going to replace the rod and piece together a turbo kit. I'd really like to boost this car. It would be a dream come true :cool:

If anybody has a turbo'ed 420A, I'd really like to check it out.

thanks again

Make sure to get forged pistons if you plan on running more than about 8psi. My stock piston lands gave out quickly at 12psi.

[v413nc3]

Do you still have them in the closet? :-p

[BoostedGS]

I know where 2 of them are. One is in the "car bathroom" on display and Jake Mitchell has the other one. I'll take a picture tonight and post it if I think about it. :)

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

Swing by the shop then, we have one here all done up!

Where's your shop at? I might be able to stop by. let me know...

[fusionsport]

1475 Kingston, Aurora, just off Colfax near 225

[Jack(IAT)]

You mean how did it sound. He sold the car. Once you modify a car it's reliability is drawn into question. When you boost a non-boosted car you can and probably will have all sorts of issues you would not have had before. Patrick decided to get a boosted vehicle from the factory so he sold the GS. In the end the money you sink into it will not be worth it. You have a one wheel drive wonder. The whole point of having a T/E/L is you get a heavy platform with AWD. A neon with a 420A would be a much better choice for boosting because they are considerably lighter. If you just want it for a daily I suggest you keep it unboosted. It will be way more dependable for you. Then you can save the money you were going to spend and either buy an Evo or another AWD car.

Agreed. Another thing to note is the tranny. The New Venture Gear/Chrysler tranny that is in those are known to spit out front diff sun gears through the case. Also, if you have an LSD in there, it will not solve your problems as those trannies are not as friendly to rebuild as the DSM/Mits units. Everything is modular in the Chrysler unit. That means in stead of rebuilding or replacing the 1/2 synchros when they go bad, you have to replace the whole intermediate shaft assembly as it is not serviceable and no parts are available for them if you do somehow manage to take it apart. Ever do a clutch? Same thing and it sucks... Get a turbo DSM. Even though a lot of people seem to complain about them. They are pretty well done and a lot easier to deal with. I too have also played around with the Chrysler non-turbo engine with a turbo turbo installed (little T3). Owned one for a little while. It was fun and moved pretty good, but the things that broke just sucked so terribly and it was a lot more trouble than it was worth.

Jack

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

Yeah...I have to agree, It's not really worth the trouble. To get rid of this car, I have to replace the rod...

Is it possible to replace the rod, without having to remove the engine? By removing the head, and oil pan? What's the best way?


-Edwad

[v413nc3]

The block can stay in the car, yes. It's not the best way to do it but you'd have to remove the head and the pan to pull the rod up and out. If you've caused damage to the crank though you'll need to pull it out.

[Chubby_shark_ESi]

Well...this damn car is still sitting in my garage. Doing some thinking, I decided to keep it and use it as a DD. And perhaps (later on) get a 1G awd to build up.

My friend came over, and checked it out. Says my best option is to put in a new engine. He even offered to swap one in, for free :D. He just want's me to find an engine. Soo..where can I find an 420 w/low miles and at an affordable price? Are there JDM 420s? Help an ol' n00b out! lol

-Edwad