Total seal rings?

[303Racing]

I am having my engine re-built by Western Engine. They told me that the Total Seal rings I have are no good. Can someone explain why that is a little better to me. They told me that it was kinda a hit or miss w/ them and if it came out to be a miss it would suck to have to pull the engine AGAIN and re-ring it.

I took their word for it and just went w/ some JE rings instead. But I was just curious if anyone else could shed some light on why they are that way? (the rings that is)

So far Western Engine seems to be a good company.

Thanks

[DSMxTSi]

I remember Erin Spalsberry (I think it was him) that had major problems with his Total Seal rings. But Total Seal actually sent him the wrong rings, they were some new design and material that don't seat properly in our blocks. Basically the metal in those Total Seal rings don't like the metal in our blocks, but he has a 3000 GT and the 420A might be different in that aspect. It was probably a good idea to just go with the JE rings, better to be safe than sorry on something like that! So when should your block be ready to go back in?

Cody

[303Racing]

>So when should your block be ready to go back in?

HAHAHA, a month.

If the temp outside stays this cold I will never get anything done. 30-40 deg. is one thing but 0-10 is another story.

I am still waiting on the cam gears and udp. The block should be done sometime this week. Hopefully I can have it in the car by weekend of the 16th. (Hopefully)

The temp has to rise for me to be able to do all the bodywork though.

[Erron Spalsbury]

Yup, they suck. I can show you mine if you wish. I had to pull them out and put in stockers. They didn't seat properly. The wear pattern was very inconsistant. Some parts of the rings seated properly and some parts of the same ring had barly worn at all. Total seal won't admit to anything and say they always work, but after searching the 3si archives, i found many people that had really bad luck with them. There was many contributors to them failing, too hard ring-chrome-molly type, must be seated without oil, (total seals own recommendation), Mitsu's block have too high of nickel content to match up. They will tell you all day long it's the crosshatch or stone used was wrong but overall they are really hit or miss. I even used the 280 grit stone and the 30 degree crosshatch, which they reccommeded. I bet on a soft iron Chevy block they would have worked, but not with ours. I personally would run like hell, even if they said they we're free. After it's all said and done, i now have a perfectly running car with the Mitsu stock spec rings. If you would like to see them in person, drop me a line. My 2 year old daughter loves the collection of free bracelets by the way. hahaha

Erron S.

[intaginize]

303 are you the one that has there engine at Western Machine right now. I took my block in the other day for a rebuild, and Terry showed me your block. Looks very good he painted it black and was installing the pistons and rods when I was there. What made you decide to lighten the crank. Will it rev up faster? Will that give you some better high end HP. I was thinking about doing it but havent decided yet. Its only a $110 dollars extra im wondering if its worth the trouble. Will my engine lose a lot of torque from it? Whats your opinion. I like your Eagle rods and JEs Very Nice. I might be going with some Wiseco's and Eagle rods since my EVO pistons dont fit because there only bored .020 over instead of .040 over like my block is now. Will see, I might be one of the faster DSMS in the state if I did that. Dave you better watch out im coming for ya. lol

Later :cool:

[303Racing]

Ya it was mine you saw. I just picked it up today. Western engine is bad ass they did a great job from what it looks like. I can't wait to get some boost on it after the break-in. I just had him do everything I could think of. I just want it put it in and not worry about it ever again. I don't have a flywheel on my car. The starter turns a "drive plate" and the clutch is modular. lightening the crank is kinda like putting a lightened flywheel on it. Lighter weight = faster revs and less resistance. I would do it if I was you. I dont see how it could hurt and for the price why not.

[intaginize]

I don't have a flywheel on my car. The starter turns a "drive plate" and the clutch is modular. lightening the crank is kinda like putting a lightened flywheel on it. Lighter weight = faster revs and less resistance. I would do it if I was you. I dont see how it could hurt and for the price why not. [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah from what I saw Western Engine is the shit they really know there stuff. You dont have a Flywheel I have never heard of that before. How does that work? Is the driveplate kind of like your flywheel? what does the clutch press against to switch gears if there is no flywheel the driveplate. Thats a crazy setup never heard of it being done before. What do you mean by the clutch being modular?

I have a Fidanza 8lb flywheel that Western is balancing the motor with. So my car will rev up pretty fast even without the crank being lightened. Do you think it would still be worth the money to lighten the crank?

303 whats your real name were you ever on the codsm club?

Later

[Van]

What piston to bore clearance did they use to set-up the JE's?

I'm hearing more and more good things about the Ross pistons and less and less good about the JE's.

I'd always heard that the stock Mitsu rings are best and total seal rings are shit for dsm's.

[intaginize]

I have heard mixed emotions about the JEs? But I have read good things about Wiseco and Ross. I think a lot of it just depends upon how the machine shop builds the engine. I know with the wiseco's your supposed to have about a .005 to .006 piston to wall clearance for forced induction engines. So it should be about the same for JEs I think a lot of times the machine shop doesn't set the piston to wall clearance right and the pistons start to scratch and scuff the block. If its done right I dont think you should have a problem running any forged piston.

Later

[303Racing]

Modular clutch - the clutch is all one piece (riveted together) The drive plate looks like a flywheel in size and it has teeth on it. But the only thing that comes in contact w/ it is the starter gear. The pressure plate is where all the clutch contact is made. The 95' 2gnt doesn't have a modular clutch but '96 and up do.

I know of a ton of 2gnt guys using the JE's and then don't seem to have any problems what so ever. Plus I got the rods (eagle) and the pistons for a good price. The stock rings are one of the week points of the 2gnt engine. The pistons are great but the rings and the rods weren't going to stand up to 25+ boost.

I just look at it this way. I just tried to have them do whatever I could so I didn't have to do it down the road. It is one of those things that may or may not help you all that much. In your case I personally would just stick w/ the lightened flywheel.

My name is Brian Williams. ya, I am still a member of codsm. I don't post anything on that list though. I would always get people being rude to me because I was a 2gnt. The only reason I am still in that club is because of the get togethers. I love going to club functions (when my girlfriend lets me) and the only way I can find out what codsm is up to is to stay on the stupid list.