Is my turbo dead?

[George]

Howdy All,

Well, now that I've _finally_ gotten a full-time job again I can start fixing my car. :)

My first project/repair may be my turbo, so...how can you tell if a turbo is 'dead'? I'm thinking that mine has gone to happy-boost-land-in-the-sky but would like some more experienced input as I am VERY new to working on/modifying cars.

My car...

'94 Talon TSi AWD w/~95k miles on it.


Here are my symptons...

*white/light gray smoke out my exhaust, very light...mostly at idle. I don't really see clouds when I'm driving. No blue color.

*black oil coating in my exhust tips. If I rev my engine then I get water(?) spots on the concrete that have little black flecks in them.

*I no longer feel the turbo boosting at 3400-3800 rpm, where it used to.

*light but noticable oil in my lic/uic pipe and intercooler. not really any oil from the air-filter side into the turbo.

*car still runs fast but doesn't feel like its full potential.

*my SPI boost guage still shows pressure with no drop-off.


I've checked the dsm.org archives and most folks indicate that white smoke (light volumne) out of the exhaust indicates either bad turbo (seals?) or a head gasket.

I just compresion checked my car last night (first time ever!! :-) )and got 126, 130, 126, 126. Still seems pretty decent? If it's not, I'd appreciate knowing this as well so I can plan my limited funds apprpriately.

I don't believe that my head gasket is out because my compresion seems pretty good and is consistent straight across. I also still have coolent in my reserve tank. :)

That, plus the lack of boost while pressure being present along with oil in my intercooler and pipes is leading me to think at least my turbo seals are going? But does that mean I need a completely new turbo? Or just new seals?

Are there other things I should be looking at?

Thanks for any and all help!!

Cheers,

--George

[XakEp]

I dunno if its your TURBO that died.. WHen Mine went I still had turbo power, I just shot out GOBS of smoke when I hit the gas... I lost a bearing in the Turbo so it was burning oil.. To check this take off the intake hose on the turbo and see if the fan rotates properly by hand... Make ure its cool before you try this tho.. hehe...

[DSMxTSi]

White / light grey smoke usually indicates headgasket, but you appear to not be losing any coolant, so it could be the turbo. Usually when the seals in the turbo go out it'll be black smoke coming out of the exhaust. Your car has many miles, so replacing the turbo would be a good idea.

Black coating in the exhaust tips is normal, but if it's excessive then you're getting too much oil past seals somewhere, probably the turbo seals again. Usually when the piston rings are bad it'll be blueish smoke and will typically smoke constantly, so your car fortunately isn't doing that plus your compression turned out decent enough.

Light oil in the i/c pipes is normal, typically from blow-by past the rings. Go out to any auto parts store and get a small Fram (part # G2) fuel filter to replace the hose from the valve cover to the intake pipe. That'll solve that problem.

Does your turbo make a whining noise while boosting? That will indicate that it's pretty dead. You can also take the intake hose off of the turbo and check the shaft for any side-to-side play, if it's excessive then replace the turbo now. I would replace the entire turbo instead of just the seals. It may need more than just seals like a new shaft, compressor and / or turbine wheels. Plus it'll give you a great excuse to get a 16G or something even bigger! :D

Cody

[George]

Ok, I'll see if I can turn my compressor wheel by hand when I get home this evening....after it cools off... :)

I think I have been hearing a whinning noise lately...I'll listen for that when I drive home tonight as well. If this is the case, would my compressor wheel wooble when I try to turn it?

And, I agree that it would certainly give me a good excuse to buy that big 16G... :D I wouldn't even give it a second thought if they cost less than the $800 I've seen around. :(


I'm curious though...can you still have ~11 psi of pressure on an aftermarket boost guage with a 'dead' turbo? Or, maybe it's really different types of 'dead'. So with shot seals, or a bearing...you can still have some boost...just not alot? and still have the pressure on your intake side?

thanks for your help XakEp and Cody&Jenni!

Cheers,

--George

[ALyons]

Does a blown turbo whistle all of the time? My 14b used to whistle when it was pushing exactly 18lbs, but no other time, and it hasn't done it in quite a few months. I really can't afford a new turbo.

[XakEp]

Heh, np dude... Glad to help.. BTW - when my turbo went ii was shooting white smoke.. lots and lots of oil... If that wheel is wobbling when you turn it its a safe bet that you lost a bearing.. I would recommend going to TEC in GOlden. Some people dont like them, I got my 16g there and havent had any problems since i got mine...

[hoffman]

if you do need to get another turbo, post in the COSP forum. that way we can setup a time and date to give you a hand with the swap. also to make sure you aren't forgeting anything (like anti-sieze).

[George]

Hoffmangsx, thanks for the COSP forum suggestion should I need a new turbo. Even if there's no comfort in the cost, at least there is in the community! :D


Ok, so I pulled the intake to take a look at the turbo tonight and there is no side-to-side play. It's pretty firm. I'm also able to spin the compressor pretty freely using a finger. So, it looks like my bearings are ok.

And part two of tonights homework...I do hear a pretty strong whine when I am at WOT and over 5 psi. It was pretty consistent and as soon as I let off the gas, went away. Now, I removed the air silencer, have a Buschur Racing UIC pipe, K&N and MBC that is sourced at the bov. These wouldn't account for the whineing sound would they?

I'm at a loss. It seems like the turbo might be ok?!?! but I don't have strong boost and I do have a whineing sound.

Is there something else I can check short of pulling my turbo off??


Thanks everybody for your help in this!!

--George

[XakEp]

Heh, heres an idea... WHere your BOV dumps into the intake, did you know that it continues for about 2.5 more inches? Do you know if its been chopped off? If it has, that would account for the noise...

Q

[George]

XakEp, I believe that you get the 2.5" insert only on 2Gens?? I've got a 1Gen and where my bov line entered my intake, it didn't have anything extending further down.

Good suggestion though! I ended up reviewing my mbc hookup to make sure! I think its right.. :D


Cheers,

--George

[Hal]

This sounds like an i/c piping leak, simple as that.

Hal

[George]

I'll check the I/C connections when I get home.

I know that would cover the loss of power, but would that account for the white/grey smoke? Or would I still be looking at the possibility of a seal leak?


Thanks Hal.

[XakEp]

From the Vfaq (www.vfaq.com - you may want to check it) :

My car blows white smoke! Is there a fix?
From an October 10, 1998 post by David Gawlowski:

"[This is] ...caused by water evaporating in the exhaust stream. Occasional puffs [are] usually from condensation in the exhaust pipes (especially in humid areas) or a water balloon up your stove-pipe. Continual white smoke [is usually due to] a warped head/head gasket and coolant entering your combustion chambers. If you're really unlucky, might be from a cracked head."

Some people have reported that high boost levels may promote white smoke, for some reason. Turning the boost down some cures the problem. This might be related to worn out seals on the turbo, which can leak oil into the exhaust. A bad brake booster can potentially let brake fluid into the vacuum line, which also produces white smoke.

Check out David's Turbocharger Troubleshooting diagnostic chart for a comprehensive guide to smoking and other engine problems.

Submit new information now!



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My car blows black smoke! Is there a fix?
My car blows gray smoke! Is there a fix?
From an October 10, 1998 post by David Gawlowski:

"This is caused by uncombusted [unburned] fuel. Could be plugs, timing, clogged air filter, air/fuel mixture, wires, coil, etc. Start with the cheapest answer and work your way up."

Check out David's Turbocharger Troubleshooting diagnostic chart for a comprehensive guide to smoking and other engine problems.

Submit new information now!



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My car blows blue smoke! Is there a fix?
From Todd Hayashi, there are three likely causes:

1) Failed oil ring(s) in the block
2) Failed valve seal(s) in the head
3) Failed turbo oil seal
Lorrin Barth pointed out that a fourth cause, especially on rebuilt heads, may be poor fit between the valves and the valve guides.

More details on blue smoke can be found in this post by David Gawlowski. Also check out David's Turbocharger Troubleshooting diagnostic chart for a comprehensive guide to smoking and other engine problems.

[DSMxTSi]

I just checked out Forced Performance's website and they are selling new Big 16Gs for $665. If you want one, then that's the deal for you. :) I was going to get a new 20G cartridge from TEC in Golden, but after I checked around about them the "questionable" stuff came up more than the good stuff. So I've decided that FP is about the only place to buy "bolt-on" turbos for DSMs.

Cody

[DSMxTSi]

Originally posted by ALyons
Does a blown turbo whistle all of the time? My 14b used to whistle when it was pushing exactly 18lbs, but no other time, and it hasn't done it in quite a few months. I really can't afford a new turbo.

If a wheel/shaft in the turbo is on it's way out, then it'll make a whining noise kind of like a cop's siren. That's about the best way I can describe it. If you're getting a whistle sound, then that's more than likely just your bov.

Cody

[ALyons]

It was more of a really really high pitched whistle. Come to think of it, it probably was my greddy bov, the turbo made alot more audible sound (i.e spooling at low rpms, etc) when I had it. Since I sold it the turbo's almost silent.

[George]

Thanks for the pointer to Forced Performance, Cody& Jenni ! I just may upgrade the turbo anyways and assume that it's going out. :D

I haven't had much time lately to dig more into what's going on with my car. Just to busy... but thanks to everyone that has replied and given all those suggestions, I'll keep plugging away and see what happens!

Cheers,

--George

[George]

Managed to get some time the other night and look at the various clamps/etc for my intake. Turns out that I did have an intake leak...my bov wasn't tightened down all the way.

So, fixed that and the car doesn't wistle much, but I'm still not feeling much boost at the 3400-3500 rpm range the way I used to, so...I'm still thinking that my turbo is on the way out. Now...onto saving up for that 16G and exhaust! :D

Thanks to everyone again for all the suggestions and pointers!

Cheers,

--George

[Steezy303]

talk to don(fusionsport) or lucas at carz customs about their deals on the 16g's. They might be able to help you out on that.