DSMlink tuning (Gods of Tuning plz read!)

[XakEp]

Well, I now have DSMlink in my car (Karl, you kick ASS) and I'm in the process of tuning... I'm not on the DSMlink boards until the emails and such get sent letting them know I'm a PROUD owner, so I'm going to ask you all to help me out.

My last log at WOT has me with the following at 6900 RPMs in 3rd gear..

91 octane fuel
.4 degrees of knock
19 psi boost
16.7 degrees timing
injector duty cycle at 69%
Front O2 .90 from when I hit the gas till I let off

I have a FMIC, 550s (660s get in tomorrow and I get to retune) and all the supporting mods for an 18G. I was going to attach the logfile but it wont let me. Oh well. I'm just asking for a few pointers as to what I might do with the car to tune it and what to try...

Thanx a ton!

[v413nc3]

Quinn, you have a 2G right? Your O2's are at 90 all the way from 3k to 8k (or wherever your redline happens to be)... I'd increase fuel where they're at 90 about 3%-5% and check your O2's then... it looks a little bit lean to me, IMHO, Then again, your EGT's could still be nice and low so it may not matter.

Not sure why you're getting 660's personally, looks like the 550's are doin the job peachy.

[XakEp]

I'm going with 660s cause I want to keep injectors cycle down and I want to run 12s. Heh. Course, there are other reasons...

I'll add fuel where I'm getting knock retard (6.5k rpms and up) but I dont think that .90 O2 is too lean on pump gas when my EGTs are 1500 at peak...

Can someone explain to me WHY larger injectors will let you run faster with a fuel controller like DSMlink?

Other opinions?

[tekky]

more boost can be ran with optimal engine output, atleast that's whatI'd assume, less knock at higher boost is always good..... long as the intake charge isnt excessivly heated...

[DlandryTSI]

Quinn I just fixed the attatchment piece to allow you to attach the log. Go ahead and attach it so we can see whats goin on.

--Dave

[DlandryTSI]

Originally posted by XakEp


Can someone explain to me WHY larger injectors will let you run faster with a fuel controller like DSMlink?

Other opinions?

The way Injector PW works is when you crank up the boost the car measures the airflow going into the turbo. When it sees more air it has to compensate by reading the O2 sensor and attempt to put more fuel it. Well the stock fuel maps can only do soo much. This is where the fuel control devices come into play. You can bump the fuel up even higher than the ecu can.

Ideal you want 12.0-12.2:1 AFR. Basically 12 parts of air to 1 part of fuel. In order to achieve this correctly you need a DIY wideband sensor installed or borrow one at a dyno.

The more you crank on the fuel to adjust the af ratio the higher the injector PW goes. When you get to 90% then you have pretty much maxed out the current injectors.

How much boost did you run when you ran your 13.1?

--Dave

[XakEp]

I was runnning 22 psi of boost, but I can tell you the car feels stronger NOW with 19 psi than it ever did with 22 psi...

I'll attach it this afternoon so you all can see it. I have 5 logfiles where I progressively removed fuel and you can see the results. I am REALLY REALLY happy with DSMlink. I can FINALLY see wtf is going on in the engine...

Now I just have to figure it all out.

Will DSMlink let me adjust timing? What will advancing or removing timing do?

[XakEp]

This is the final log from last night... 3rd gear only

[v413nc3]

Originally posted by DlandryTSI
The more you crank on the fuel to adjust the af ratio the higher the injector PW goes. When you get to 90% then you have pretty much maxed out the current injectors.

I'd say anything over 80-85% and you've maxed your injectors to be on a safer side.

[Van]

For some reason I can't download the file. I assume it's because I don't have dsmlink?

In a nut, larger injectors allow you to fool the ecu into giving you more timing and flow much more air at the same time. The ecu doesn't even know that you are pushing twice the HP. :D

It's been proven that on a 2G 660's will be good, 550's aren't quite enough to get the ecu to give you better timing when pushing some decent air. I'm not sure how dsmlink has changed that train of thought though.

I dislike egt's, but you're probably right in this case Quinn. I'm not a 2G guy, but doesn't .4 degrees of knock mean that you have that many degrees of knock caused timing retard, in this case .4? Less than one?
If it's saying 4 degrees of retard because of knock at 19 psi already and only 17 degrees of timing; without changing anything else I'd up the boost just a little bit to see what happens. If it's really point four degrees or less than one, then I'd up the boost then too.
If she knocks worse, then you my man are at the pump gas boost limit of that turbo/set-up.
If she knocks less then you were too rich before, so drop the boost back down and lean her out a little bit. It's always better to start at a lower boost point, you're that much safer.

My dsm was rich at .90 volts, she liked .86 - .88 volts. Then I switched O2 sensors once and that number changed. :rolleyes:

Adding more fuel to cover knock when the set-up's limit is passed always yields a slower dsm. Your turbo is smaller than my old one so I'm not a great comparison, but obviously you have PLENTY of injector left with the 550's as is at this point. The timing could be better though, 660's will do that.

If it were me, I wouldn't artificially change the timing just yet. I'd stick with what it's giving you until you know absolutely why it is.

And just to clarify, at WOT the ecu doesn't look at the O2 sensor as an input. Does the dsmlink change that? I'd not heard that if that is so.

As another data point, I pushed my 550's until they went static on pump gas, theoretical 110% DC, IIRC. ;) They ran uber perfect at 100% DC on the logger though.

[DlandryTSI]

Heh as far as the O2 sensor goes I was mistaken. The ECU only uses it for idle and cruise. Muh bad.

--Dave

[XakEp]

I want to go as far as I can on pump gas without hitting knock - and thats why I'm going to go with the 660s. I went out with ryan driving and me tuning... The EGTs are at 1425 or so at peak, and the car is still a little rich, but its getting 3.8 degrees of knock retard. I'm going to go the track, lean it out a bit and then see where it goes. I'll say this..

It pulls alot harder NOW on pump gas than it did last year on 104 octane. I'm going to get 110 or so at Duggan's and take it to the track. This saturday I'm going to install the 660s and see what happens with that. I just want to see how far I can take the 550s.

Oh, and Ryan launched it once tonight with the stutterbox... The front end came up MUCH higher off the ground than it ever has before.

[Van]

"My name is XakEp and I'm a boost junkie." "I just can't stop it, it's like every time I start to press the throttle she screams for it." "Then of course I orgasm all over myself instantly."

:p It's ALL good Quinn!

On topic: it does sound like you are a little rich still. My car liked to run it's best MPH with knock counts in the 5-15 count range on pump gas.
It sounds like your 2G is measuring degrees of retard from your last post. That being said, some VERY impressive HP numbers have been shown on the dyno at even 10 degrees of total timing advance lately. That seems a little low to me too, but if it works for them it can work at a lower hp mark too. ;)

With your timing advance as low as it is and your low egt's I'd up the boost some. Just be careful and monitor the knock retard. If it goes ballistic back out of it.

[DlandryTSI]

If anyone is a boost junky its me and hal:D . Both cars are flowing 370+ grams/second airflow hehehehe

--Dave

[DlandryTSI]

Originally posted by XakEp
This is the final log from last night... 3rd gear only

I looked at my logs from this weekend and I'm runnin 84.7% peak on the injectors (720's).

--Dave

[XakEp]

Originally posted by Van
"My name is XakEp and I'm a boost junkie." "I just can't stop it, it's like every time I start to press the throttle she screams for it." "Then of course I orgasm all over myself instantly."

:p It's ALL good Quinn!

On topic: it does sound like you are a little rich still. My car liked to run it's best MPH with knock counts in the 5-15 count range on pump gas.
It sounds like your 2G is measuring degrees of retard from your last post. That being said, some VERY impressive HP numbers have been shown on the dyno at even 10 degrees of total timing advance lately. That seems a little low to me too, but if it works for them it can work at a lower hp mark too. ;)

With your timing advance as low as it is and your low egt's I'd up the boost some. Just be careful and monitor the knock retard. If it goes ballistic back out of it.

You crack me up d00d... haha... I know where to lean out the injectors to start getting 5+ counts of knock on pump gas, so I'll lean it out that far with the 110 and start there at the track. I'm really impressed with the solid and SMOOTH acceleration that the car has now.

No predictions, but dayum.... If only Louie hadnt pussed out...

[v413nc3]

Keep in mind that that isn't a knock count but a measurement in degrees. Your DSM link should have a feature to flash the CEL when your actual count gets above 5 so that might help a lil bit when tuning.

[XakEp]

Ya... Thats when I noticed that I was getting knock. Checked the logs and BAM!!! Hehe... I'm excited to see what 110 does to eliminate the knock and allow me to tune farther on.

[ryanman]

I want to go drivin again Quinn. That was fun except for it being dark and not being able to tell cops from other cars. Oh and we layed the smack down on a VR4 that had a few mods on our way back to Quinns house. Car feels very strong and pulls very hard. Thanks for letting me drive. Next time I wanna drive it at 2nd Creek. lol

[tekky]

Originally posted by v413nc3
Keep in mind that that isn't a knock count but a measurement in degrees. Your DSM link should have a feature to flash the CEL when your actual count gets above 5 so that might help a lil bit when tuning.

not quite... (unless of course you mean 5 counts of degrees? after re-reading it, i found it confusing and figured it could mean either one... :rolleyes: )


from www.dsmlink.com
Flashes the check engine light if timing is pulled back more than 5 degrees due to knock (i.e., you're starting to knock pretty badly).

[XakEp]

Originally posted by ryanman
I want to go drivin again Quinn. That was fun except for it being dark and not being able to tell cops from other cars. Oh and we layed the smack down on a VR4 that had a few mods on our way back to Quinns house. Car feels very strong and pulls very hard. Thanks for letting me drive. Next time I wanna drive it at 2nd Creek. lol

Fuck that - you'll break it! But yeah, it would be great to have you drive and me tune again after the 660s go in. I'll be at Bandimere today, you?

[ryanman]

Yeah I'll be there around 6pm.

[v413nc3]

Somethin like that, I wasn't thinking clearly :) LoL


Quinn send me those logs from tonight and I'll see if I can't tell you what she was doing.

[XakEp]

Originally posted by v413nc3
Somethin like that, I wasn't thinking clearly :) LoL


Quinn send me those logs from tonight and I'll see if I can't tell you what she was doing.

I'm at work and dont have them with me... I emailed them to Dave last night - ask him for a copy. If not I'll get them to ya tonight sometime after I get back home.

poka!

[v413nc3]

Ok, after reviewing the logs and comparing them to a compressor map of a 18G, as well as correcting for altitude, here is what I came up with.

Your couplers are fine, but you do have a leak...

You should hold a consistant 37.5lb/min airflow at this altitude.
You are holding a consistant 27.3lb/min airflow

You're loosing a consistant amount of air. Which means that your air is not escaping because of a surge in the system (good couplers) but because of a hole in the system. It's probably your end tank or some other such device.

[Van]

Be it good or bad, there's always a ho involved, hehehe. :p

[XakEp]

Ok...


Found 2 large boost leaks today and fixed them both. One IC coupler had come apart and the J-Pipe gasket was shot. The system was pressure tested until the tester fucking exploded. Scared the shit outta Ryan. It happened around 45 psi or so...

Went out and logged and found out some interesting things that will DEFINITELY do 2 things...

1) Max the injectors

2) Keep that damn airflow up