found out what went wrong on Engine 2

[sbiggi]

so as you all may or may not know... we have destroyed 2 race engines....

the first one was dry start.....

the second one was redone at Western Machine....big mistake...they are stupid,

we brought our stuff to a new shop.... RevMotors, he tore down the head to find it clogged with glass from when Western glass beaded the head.... the first thing he said when we came in is "was the head beaded?? thats impossible to remove all that glass".... so all this glass left in the head made its way to the rest of the engine taking out all the bearings....and probably the turbo (havent had it check yet)

and through all this Terry at Western had been less than helpful and will not take anykind of responsibiltiy for what he had done.... his only reponse is "well we can speculate all day long" and "thats not an out"

so... I would recomend not taking stuff to Western.... but thats from my experience

[DlandryTSI]

You should have taken the parts back over to Western to have them look at the damages. Accusing Western of faul play w/o letting them see whats going on is not the way to do business.

Also if Western was stupid then why would the be in business? They roll motors out everyday w/o any problems.

Its a 50/50 responsibility between the shop and the owner to inspect the parts before taking ownership of them. If you failed to look them over then I don't see why Western should be held responsible.

Hal, myself and a few others have had very good luck with them.

--Dave

[v413nc3]

this is why I use Geddes. :)

[Hal]

I didn't even know western did glass beading, I KNOW they've never glass beaded any of ours.

Also, oil flow is from the bottom up. Glass (or any other stuff) would clog the head. Any that got pushed out would drain back into the oil and get picked up by the oil pump then stop at the filter.

I really doubt glass beading caused the problem.

Without looking at the bearings I wouldn't say for certain.

Hal

[Super Talon]

i had them do 3 helicoils on a block of mine and all 3 of them where atleast 5 degrees off of 90 so i had to have the head machined to work with the crooked studs... i wasnt too happy with that work... thats why i assembled my block after they bored it...

[sbiggi]

well... the only reason we didnt have them do it again is because they wouldnt gaurantee that the engine would even run....

they just want to do the work, collect the money and never see you again.... they have no liability, and no gurantee


You should have taken the parts back over to Western to have them look at the damages. Accusing Western of faul play w/o letting them see whats going on is not the way to do business.

and they did see every thing.... they did the tear down, they saw the bearings, they saw the pistons.... and what do they say, "looks like a dry start"..... LMAO... no way in hell was it a dry start.... RevMotors, first thing he says is it looks like stuff went through the bearings


Also, oil flow is from the bottom up. Glass (or any other stuff) would clog the head. Any that got pushed out would drain back into the oil and get picked up by the oil pump then stop at the filter.
and yes stuff would get picked up by the oil pickup, but no it would not initialy be stoped by the filter...
at cold startup there is to much pressure... so it bypasses the filter....
then all the shit goes through everything several hundred times till the engine is warmer and the oil pressure comes down...
then the filter pulls crap out of the oil, which it did.... all of the bearing material that got puked out from the rod


I really doubt glass beading caused the problem.
there was so much glass in the head that when the plugs were pulled out... it was packed with glass

lesson one.... dont glass bead a head
lesson two ... get a gurantee

besides, Terry wouldnt even consider that it was his fault.... all he wanted to do was rebuild it, and collect more money....
we asked him if he knew what the problem was, he said "no"
so we asked him "why we should give you more money if you dont even know what the problem is"
he told us to find another shop... so we did

[v413nc3]

FYI if anyone has engine work done by anybody but western you'll need a head torque plate. There are only two people in this state that have one to my knowledge, Terry at western, and team TLS (namely me)... I will rent it out if you need work done @ $75... or you can buy one for just shy of $500

[Van]

This is probably the fifth "bad" story I've heard about Western. There is always something funny about each incident as well. Anyways Dave is partially right, but he is also biased as expected. Western has worked for him, but he is in the minority now as I've heard more "bad" than good.

Quit screwing around and go to the people who live and breathe 4G63's. REAL DSM vendors like Buschur, Shep, FP, TurboTrix, Marco, and RRE.

Just my .02.

[sbiggi]

Originally posted by Van
Quit screwing around and go to the people who live and breathe 4G63's. REAL DSM vendors like Buschur, Shep, FP, TurboTrix, Marco, and RRE.

Just my .02.

I agree... the first race engine was from Slowboy Racing... but was assembled by Hendricks Racing (sp?).... but we screwed that one royally

we would have had them redo it but dealing with people/shipping that far away isnt cheap.... so we wanted to go local.... but hey, I'm just another opinion..and wanted people to know what happend

[v413nc3]

Assembling an engine isn't that hard... just get Geddes to do some work for you and put the damn thing together yourself. It doesn't take a brain surgeon... It only seems complicated. As long as you're careful and you verify all your clearances you should be able to assemble your own block without any faults.

[DlandryTSI]

Geddes is ok if you want to wait weeks before they even touch your stuff.

This all goes back to "are you experienced enough to look at the work before signing for it". Yes I am biased but I also believe in what I see. Until I see hard evidence that it was westerns fault I fail to even acknowledge it.

Vern - All the cases I've heard are becuase of the person doing a dry start on the motor. That is 90% of the cases.

--Dave

[v413nc3]

I agree Dave, but I also feel that building an engine isn't all together that tough, so someone should be able to assemble one w/out much trouble. Leave the machining to a machine shop, it is what they do best.

[hoffman]

i agree. i do enjoy doing my own work on the car. unfortunatly at thie time i cant, but i want to come home to a "like new" car.

hey vern, welcome back! hows AZ?

btw, i submitted my application to UTI in AZ. so hopefully in a little over a year i'll be down there. im going to take the ford ase certification course. theres more ford dealers than you can shake a stick at :p